<\/a>watchout, on , said:<\/p> <\/a>DontStopPre, on , said:<\/p> <\/a>hedyd4u, on , said:<\/p> <\/a>DougB, on , said:<\/p>
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\n
\n
\nNot everyone has run at ANY course in the nation. EVERY course in high school XC is a regional course, with the exception of Portland Meadows, which was a total crap shoot.
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\nWho the hell runs at Nebo? Or Westlake?
\n
\nIf this is your logic, then the rankings are a farce.
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\nMore great teams have run at Manhattan over the years than any course which AF has run at.
\n
\nTake a look at the performances by FM this year. Not just Manhattan - which was the greatest race by a hs team ever. But all the other ones have results which show them to be as good as the top teams in every year going back for the past 10-15 years.
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\nAs king mentioned, they destroyed a CR set by CBA last year - a team beaten only by Gig Harbor - and most observers would classify those two teams last year as two of the best teams ever in high school history. FM at Manhattan didn't edge the performance, they didn't beat it by a good margin, they crushed it.
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\n
\nFM was 4th last year at NXN, and returned 6 of 7. It's not like they are a team that came out of the blue. I don't really know what it would take for FM to be #1.","date_added":"Oct 18th 2014, 6:46pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":291142,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"i\/no_avatar.png","pb_title":"GeorgieTheK","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=43639","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/GeorgieTheK.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1073375"},"1146113":{"pb_id":"68733","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1146113","comment_id":"1146113","member_id":"68733","comment":"I have no idea how a team that breaks a 45 meaningful tiem tested years' 5 man avg by a GREAT team by 12 secs per guy cannot be U.S. #1
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\nUsing aggregate times and comparing them across venues and conditions is a really challenging method to use
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\nIt's the eye test, CBA was second at NXN and ran 12:44, FM didn;t just nip that, they thrashed that
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\nThe methodology of comparing teams from different years, different days, different conditions, Is flawed unless the performance is completely on its' own, dominating and earth shattering, that is what FM just did","date_added":"Oct 18th 2014, 3:04pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":291142,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"i\/no_avatar.png","pb_title":"King999","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=68733","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/King999.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1493915"},"1146060":{"pb_id":"53226","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1146060","comment_id":"1146060","member_id":"53226","comment":"Hopefully SLC Boys step it up, because I think they could have taken 2nd at Clovis. Canal\/Kemps have run slightly off mark the past two meets (Nike South, and now Clovis), and Timou was most certainly off point.
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\nHopefully come NXN time they get it together, because I don't see College Park beating them this season at all (both are good teams, but I still see SLC's depth prevailing regardless, in the case their top runners drop off too much).","date_added":"Oct 18th 2014, 7:13am","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":291142,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"i\/no_avatar.png","pb_title":"Heracles","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=53226","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/Heracles.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1336916"},"1146008":{"pb_id":"43715","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1146008","comment_id":"1146008","member_id":"43715","comment":"
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\nOther teams have been more impressive recently. It didn't help that Kamiakin had some of their worst races at Sunfair (their only recent result), though none of that drastic and it isn't surprising given that it's a flighted race (less competition). Don't get me wrong, Sunfair was still a good race - just not as impressive as Sundodger or Tracy Walters, and other teams have caught up\/passed them. I expect Kamiakin will move up the rankings again after the Eastern Regional (if not after the MCC meet). VERY little gap between Kamiakin and the Top 15\/20.","date_added":"Oct 18th 2014, 4:34am","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":291142,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-43715.jpg","pb_title":"watchout","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=43715","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/profile.php?member_id=43715","pb_wally_id":"1073498"},"1146007":{"pb_id":"43715","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1146007","comment_id":"1146007","member_id":"43715","comment":"
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\n
\nGig Harbor beat CBA last year (and looked better throughout the year)...
\n
\nI DO think AF could be as good as the best teams last year.
\n
\nEDIT: By the way, since you guys like comparing single races so much to determine who is better... how about this for a comparison of AF '14 <-> Gig Harbor '13; Gig Harbor '13 <-> CBA '13; FM '14 <-> CBA '13:
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\nUS#1\/NXN#1 Gig Harbor WA ran 79:08.5 at Bob Firman last year; Lehi UT ran 82:20.5 at Bob Firman this year (4.0% slower)
\nAmerican Fork UT ran 79:52.6 at Region IV last week; Lehi UT ran 83:28.7 at Region IV last week (4.5% slower)
\n
\nLehi was 0.5% closer in time to US#1\/NXN#1 Gig Harbor WA than they were to American Fork UT.
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\n
\n
\nUS#1\/NXN#1 Gig Harbor WA ran 77:53 at NXN last year to US#2\/NXN#2 Christian Brothers NJ's 78:59 (1.4% faster)
\nUS#2\/NXN#2 Christian Brothers NJ ran 63:41.7 at Manhattan last year; Fayetteville-Manlius NY ran 62:43.8 (1.5% faster)
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\n
\n
\nFayetteville-Manlius is, using the above comparison, about 0.1% faster than Gig Harbor was last year.
\nAmerican Fork is, using the above comparison, about 0.5% faster than Gig Harbor was last year.
\nErgo, judging by those races, American Fork must be about 0.4% faster than Fayetteville-Manlius this year.
\n
\nNOTE: THIS IS NOT HOW MY RANKINGS ARE DONE<\/strong>, this is only to show - using similar logic to what's been used on this board - how American Fork most definitely has a case for being US#1.<\/em><\/span>","date_added":"Oct 18th 2014, 4:30am","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":291142,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-43715.jpg","pb_title":"watchout","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=43715","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/profile.php?member_id=43715","pb_wally_id":"1073498"},"1145966":{"pb_id":"45158","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1145966","comment_id":"1145966","member_id":"45158","comment":"Why does Kamiakin drop so dramatically? They've been more than impressive every invite they've raced.","date_added":"Oct 18th 2014, 3:00am","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":291142,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"i\/no_avatar.png","pb_title":"DontStopPre","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=45158","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/profile.php?member_id=45158","pb_wally_id":"1182171"},"1145960":{"pb_id":"43989","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1145960","comment_id":"1145960","member_id":"43989","comment":"The record was CBA-NJ 12:44.34 they were the best team in the nation when they ran that time last year F-M 12:32.76 this year I don't think American Fork is as good as the best teams last year so them being number 1 makes no sense.","date_added":"Oct 18th 2014, 2:37am","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":291142,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"https:\/\/fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net\/hprofile-ak-snc6\/273468_100000108230587_1260957665_q.jpg","pb_title":"hedyd4u","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=43989","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/hedyd4u.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1075992"},"1145950":{"pb_id":"43715","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1145950","comment_id":"1145950","member_id":"43715","comment":"
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\n
\nI figured that would come up, but that's a more simple answer that people can probably assume more readily: Not everyone has run at VCP, so while that might make FM the best NE team to date, it doesn't necessarily mean they are better than the rest of the nation. I think AF has a slightly stronger #5 while being similar enough throughout the rest of the lineup to give AF the edge.
\n
\nEDIT: For more info...
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\nI think Millar has the edge over Jacklin, but I don't think it's all that big of a gap. Remember, Jacklin was one of the best in the Southwest last year (#3 at Utah State, #3 at NXN-SW, but was a bit further back at NXN though still Top 50). This year, both runners have been excellent: Jacklin broke at least one course record and has only lost one race (to his teammate at Nebo), while Millar has run the #3 time (I'm assuming) at Manhattan and was right behind Marsten at McQuaid. I would give the edge to Millar, but both have been outstanding.
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\nBoth teams have excellent #2's - I would give the edge to Casey Clinger (AF) by a fair margin, though.
\n
\nBoth teams have excellent #3's - I would give the edge to AF's McKay Johns.
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\nBoth teams have excellent #4's - I would give the edge to FM's Peter Ryan.
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\nBoth teams have excellent #5's - it's close, but I'd give the edge to AF's Joseph Simmons.
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\n
\n
\nBoth teams are outstanding, both teams have been breaking or challenging strong course records, and it would be understandable for either to be US#1. I think AF has been just a little better, which is why they got the nod.","date_added":"Oct 18th 2014, 1:56am","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":291142,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-43715.jpg","pb_title":"watchout","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=43715","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/profile.php?member_id=43715","pb_wally_id":"1073498"},"1145948":{"pb_id":"43715","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1145948","comment_id":"1145948","member_id":"43715","comment":"